Embracing Vulnerability: From Surviving Cancer to Performance Art

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Creates art podcast interview.

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Dr.

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Joshua Caraballo.

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Hello friend.

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This is Timothy Kimo.

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Brian, your head instigator with create art podcast, where I bring

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my over 30 years of experience in the arts and education world to

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help you tame your inner critic.

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In this episode, I'm going to be talking with Dr.

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Joshua Caraballo, who is an industrial organizational psychologist, currently

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residing in Denver, Colorado.

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Now his career trajectory has centered on the themes of inspirational

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storytelling and applied science for the sake of human betterment,

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especially for those who have been historically marginalized and oppressed.

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Joshua has a deep passion for For the human flourishing, awe

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inspiring experience in nature and anything involving cats.

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Now you may be asking yourself, hey Tim, how do you get these guests on the show?

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Well, what I do Is I subscribe to a service called pod match.

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And what that does is that matches me with other people that are

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interested in the same things that I'm interested in, namely for me, the arts.

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And that's how I ran into Dr.

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Joshua Caraballo.

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He reached out to me and heard the show and thought it would be a great

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idea for him to be on the show.

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And he has a new book out that you're going to hear a lot about.

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And that new book is called I'm not dead yet, how I turned my misfortunes

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into strengths and links to Dr.

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Carabello's website and how to get the book will be in the show notes.

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So make sure you look out for those.

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Now, the sound quality on this interview is not 100%, so I'm going to

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let you know that ahead of time here.

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So if you hear any squelches or any weird things like that,

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that's what's going on there.

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Just using a new service, which is called Squadcast.

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And I've used it in the past and gotten decent results with it.

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This time was not 100 percent perfect, but I thought instead of rerecording

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everything, it was important to get this conversation going.

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To you, because there's a lot of great tidbits in here that you're going to want

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to write down and you're going to want to go ahead and get the book as well.

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So without further ado, here's my interview with Dr.

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Joshua Caraballo.

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Folks, I have the privilege of having Dr.

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Joshua here with me today.

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Dr.

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Joshua, you're out there in Colorado.

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How is it?

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Oh

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my goodness.

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It, the weather is so beautiful this week.

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Um, anyone that knows about Colorado weather.

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Denver specifically is where I'm at, uh, will know that the weather here

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changes drastically, uh, sometimes day to day to day, hour to hour.

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So this week is one of those weeks where I'm taking a big, Breath of

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fresh air and saying, wow, I'm so happy that the weather is just, I would

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use the word perfect, but it's almost perfect because nothing is perfect.

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Been out to Denver myself.

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Oh gosh.

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It's been 10, 000 and 12 hours out there.

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And I got to tell you, the air out there, it tastes like metal to me.

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Anyways, there's a big independent bookstore downtown.

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I forget the name of it.

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The art scene there in Denver is top notch.

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Thank you

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so much,

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yeah.

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I'm originally from South Florida, so it's a big difference between Denver

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and South Florida for several reasons.

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But yeah, the art scene here is tremendous.

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So I always say, or at least I have been saying for the last three years that I've

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been here, It's the best decision I've ever made, and I tell everybody, although

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other Denverites here probably don't want me to do this because we're getting a

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little crowded here, but uh, you should definitely come visit, and if you really

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love it here, come and live, because it's, it's just so amazing to be around the

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mountains and the outdoors, there's so many people that truly appreciate that,

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and it, it does so well for our art.

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As like being outside

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and it's really inspiring being out there.

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I, like I said, it's been over a decade since I've been there, but I know when

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I was there, went to the bookstore, went around town, saw the mountains and how can

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you not have a good time out in Denver?

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Yeah.

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I think that bookstore is called the tattered cover.

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That's it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Such an amazing bookstore.

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There's also another one in Boulder called the Boulder Bookstore.

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Very easy to remember.

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And it's nondescript when you see it.

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It doesn't say Boulder Bookstore.

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It just says bookstore at the front, but it is gigantic.

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It's three stories.

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It is a dream to be inside.

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So again, if anybody ever visits, please make it a point to go to that bookstore.

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You will be so surprised.

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And if you go out and visit, you automatically have a friend with Dr.

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Gott.

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So that's right, I'm talking to him and let him show you around town.

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And I'll definitely, when I come out to Denver, don't know when I'll knock

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on your door and be like, Hey, let's go around, let's go to the Tatters bookstore.

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Let's get right into the yard here.

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Now I do know, and it just full transparency.

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I have not read it yet.

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But you have a book called, I'm not dead yet.

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I want to talk about that title first and foremost, because when I saw that I'm

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of an age and it made me think of Monty Python's Holy Grail where, you know, um,

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I'm going to tell you that this book is not about Monty Python, Holy Grail.

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So can you tell me a little bit about what, why that title?

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It's very eye catching, but why that title?

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Yeah.

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First, I didn't realize this when I was looking at or thinking about

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different titles for the book, but I was definitely thinking about

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Monty Python, Holy, the Holy Grail.

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That is one of my favorite movies ever.

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And that line, With the old man or older gentleman, if you will,

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who is just say, I'm not dead yet.

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I'm still alive.

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It just it stayed with me and I I saw that when I was young and I just thought

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it was One of the most hilarious things I had ever seen in my life So the title

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actually I can't say it comes from that, but it definitely I was informed early

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on in my life with Performance the way people express themselves, especially

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through mass media And even in more localized, like theater productions, et

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cetera, has always gravitated towards me and that informs everything that I do.

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And that's, that's the type of artist that I am, a performance artist.

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And we can talk more about that, but back to the name of the book,

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I've been through a lot in my life.

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I've faced a lot of adversities, and although I consider myself to

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be young ish, I'm 47 years old.

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People might think, why are you even thinking about death?

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But I've lived a life where I've had to think about death for quite some

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time in a lot of different ways.

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So when I turned 18 years old, I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Lymphoma,

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and I was in stage four, and for those who don't really know about stages of

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cancer, stage four is usually the very last stage, where it metastasizes,

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if I'm saying that word correctly.

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I'm a doctor, but not that kind of doctor.

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I'm an, I'm an industrial organizational psychologist, a little bit different.

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But, That was the first time that I ever had to square away

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with the possibility of dying.

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Especially when it came back a second time.

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I went through the first time about six months of chemotherapy, and then two

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months later, As should happen, another scan is done just to see what's going

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on, and all of my cancer was in my chest.

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So I had one tumor the size of a football, the other one was the size

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of a golf ball, and in the book I talk about how it's interesting and

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a little bit funny how doctors use these analogies that come from sports.

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In some ways it's fitting, and in some ways it's like, I don't know, I don't

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know how much of the game I want to be involved in right now, especially when

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it has to do with a football in my chest.

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But there's a litany of other things that I've experienced, but I could just

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focus on those two things for the moment.

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This changed my life as well, as you could probably imagine, especially

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when I found out two months later that the cancer had come back.

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It was very aggressive, and when I was first given treatment, I was

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told that there was like a 95 percent chance that everything would work out.

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I would be in remission and life would move on.

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I was a young man.

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I was 18 years old.

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Don't worry about it.

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That's not what happened to me.

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And because of all of those things and the way that it happened, I knew in my heart

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of hearts, I don't feel this way now, as a preface, but during that time I knew in my

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heart of hearts that God was punishing me.

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Now why do I say that?

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I happened to grow up in a Jehovah's Witness household and I was told at a

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very young age that being gay was wrong.

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And if you ever acted on that, That you would not be able to live through

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the Great Tribulation or Armageddon, as it's sometimes referred to as.

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And as silly as that might sound to some people, when you are being

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brought up in your formative years in a religious household, and that's

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all you know, you truly believe that.

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And, I probably knew that I was gay before I even knew what sex was because it wasn't

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about sex, it was, and that's the other thing, when people reduce a gay man's

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life or being queer, generally speaking, to the sexual act, it just, it boggles

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my mind because we're human beings, obviously, and there's so much else than

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sex that exists as part of our experience here in life and being queer people.

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Just, I'll leave that for what it's worth.

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But I knew that I was gay because I knew there was an attraction that I had and

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there was beauty, and artists know this.

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That is separate than sex.

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The beauty that we see in the world, like with a tree, is not because, and forgive

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me for just going there and being silly, we don't want to have sex with a tree.

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We find that the beauty of that tree is so amazing that it touches our heart.

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It flows through our blood.

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That's being gay to me.

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That's how I saw the males form.

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Other males in my life had this sort of spiritual connection to and that's

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the best way that I can explain that and how I knew that I was gay but that

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was the conundrum because as a young person and then understanding even not

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knowing how to put a label on I am gay I just knew that there was an attraction

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to this male form but I also knew that was wrong and I it was wrong because it

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was taught to me and sasphoric to the age of 18 it makes sense to me that I

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thought that this was God's punishment.

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for everything that I had tried so hard to get rid of in my life.

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But I realized something, the more I tried to get rid of it, the harder it

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became to get rid of, because I was actually trying to get rid of myself.

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I was trying to get rid of who I am instead of accepting that,

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loving that, and embracing that.

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I do not say all of these things, and this is one of the things I always

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like to say when I talk about my past.

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This is not to disparage religious people.

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This is not to disparage my family.

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I understand that when they brought me up, they did it out of love that

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when they decided to become Jehovah's witnesses, regardless of how I feel

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or how it's affected me, they did it because they felt it was the best

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thing in their life, the structure and community and religiosity and spirituality

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that religion gave my parents.

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met their needs and provided them with something that they felt was great.

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And because of that, they decided that they wanted to

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share that with their family.

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And.

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I don't fault them for that.

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What I do understand now is that sometimes the very thing that people see as a potion

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for themselves that they drink and think is wonderful can be a poison for others.

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And that's exactly what had happened to me.

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I don't think it's about pointing fingers.

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I think it's about making it right for myself, reversing the damage that has

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been done, which I will probably have to keep doing for the rest of my life.

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Although I feel like a good portion of that is now behind me.

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Learning how to love myself, learning what my relationship with God is,

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learning how to renegotiate all the relationships in my life with people who

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think that I should not be on this earth.

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Sometimes that means cutting them off, sometimes that means like figuring out

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some sort of semblance of how to love each other regardless of those differences.

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And everything in between and all of that is so beautiful and all of it has

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informed my art, which I think is great

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that, that my God, that's awesome.

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I just want to reach through the screen and give you a big hug after that, because

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that you're, you're talking my life, honestly, because I came up with similar,

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very religious upbringing came out as bisexual when I was in the air force.

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And this wasn't a time.

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So.

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Military, don't ask, don't tell.

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Luckily, I, uh, ran into a, uh, group of people that became my

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adopted family, my family of choice.

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And now I'm, I've been married now for, uh, 11 years, uh, to my wife.

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We've got kids.

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I always remember my parents telling me, We're doing the best with what we have.

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And this is what we can offer you.

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And I'm just trying to do the best with my kiddos.

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And offer what I have for them.

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Just opening up doors for them.

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A Lines.

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And all that.

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So enough about me.

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Let's talk about you.

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Cause I I'm there with you, man.

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You mentioned performance art and I'm a theater kid.

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So I've done a lot of performance art myself.

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Yeah, I was in theater in high school.

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So that probably explains a lot about my choices, but with performance art for

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you, a lot of people don't understand what the deal is with performance arts.

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They.

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We have the flash mobs and people scratch their head and

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go, why are they doing that?

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Describe the way and the meeting with your performance art.

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Yeah, that's a great question.

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Thank you for asking it.

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I say performance art, but I'm a theater person as well.

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So let me start there.

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Those are my foundations.

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But the reason why I use the term performance art is because

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you can't always do theater.

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It's hard.

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It's hard to get into, it's hard to maintain, it's highly, let me just put

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it, it's very difficult to get in, um, and it's definitely, it's definitely

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very difficult to make a living, just like a lot of other types of art, right,

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and I really wish it was the opposite.

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But my heart will always be in the theater.

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When I was really young, I'd say four, five, six, I, before,

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and this is before, obviously, I knew what theater was, acting,

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performance art, any of those things.

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For more information, visit www.

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FEMA.

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gov As a natural inclination as to who I was and what I wanted to do, I obviously

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during that time I was reading the Bible a lot and the Bible stories were being

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read to me, and so I decided to enact the Bible stories for my parents and

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I would do it for their anniversary.

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We were not allowed to celebrate any holidays or like birthdays, but one

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of the things that we did celebrate.

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Every year was my parents anniversary.

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I know that sounds counterintuitive to some who may not know about

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you being a jobless witness, but just take my word for it.

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That was the one thing we were allowed to do and we embraced it.

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Every year, I so much looked forward to preparing myself to

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do a role in front of my parents.

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And sometimes I would incorporate my brother or my cousins.

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But that was something, again, that nobody told me I needed to do.

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Nobody pushed me in that direction.

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It was just something that was inside of me.

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And that means a lot to me.

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So regardless of how far I get away in life, like during my nine to five or

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all the other things that I've done, getting a doctoral degree, nothing

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has made me feel totally fulfilled and whole, like performance art and theater.

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And.

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I realize that's who I am as part of my identity and will never go away.

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One of the most memorable sort of performances that I put on as

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a youngster is actually in the book where I performed Jezebel.

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I don't know if anyone knows Jezebel.

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About the story of Jezebel, but she gets pushed down from the top of a tower

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and gets eaten by dogs at the bottom.

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There's a lot more to the story, but that's pretty much the takeaway.

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And the thing that remains with people the most, the shocking,

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the shock value, if you will.

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Right.

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And although there are like stories, I'm sorry, there are learning

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lessons to all the biblical stories.

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When I was doing this.

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I felt like there was something inside of me that was not only wanting to tell

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the story, but also help people see the value of what that story was about.

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And so what, what I think is so great about the theater and

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performance art, generally speaking, is that it helps communities come

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together, just like the movies.

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But I think the theater does this even more and it makes us really

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contemplate why we exist and why we treat people the way that we do.

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All the good, the bad, the indifferent, everything.

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And there is nothing like it in the world.

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It is also a spiritual connection to me.

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So now that I'm not so much religious, I find the theater and performance

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art to be my religion, if you will.

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If I'm, if I can call it that,

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but definitely

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my spirituality.

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That's awesome to hear.

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And with arts, we were talking earlier about John Coltrane and he's my favorite

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jazz artist and a lot of his stuff, especially in his later years, very

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spiritual when, when you're dealing with the spirituality in arts, how do you

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find that difference than religious?

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How is that spirituality different?

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Yeah, there are plenty of ways that it is different.

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And please don't take this as a dodge to your question.

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In my mind, I think, for me, I look at the connections.

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Again, I'm happy to talk about the differences, because

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I know there are several.

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But the reason why I look at those connections is because

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there are obvious differences.

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Like praying to God, and in this day and age, what that has been used

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for as a weapon against Marginalized individuals, as an example, can spark

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or create this sort of animosity towards religion as generally speaking.

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And so just speaking about it can turn people away because it's just like, Oh no,

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we're not going to talk about religion.

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It's just too, it's like politics, those sorts of things.

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Yeah.

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You're in art for the most part, you're not praying to God.

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You're not singing songs in a congregation as an example.

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But the reason why I say there's so many commonalities.

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Also is because what I have found so profound in my life and what

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I as an artist is looking at the ways that we are all connected.

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I love the philosophy of looking at the universe and seeing how everything is

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connected in some way, shape or form.

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And I want to be careful because there are exceptions to everything.

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It's not an all or nothing sort of thinking.

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Somebody who's gone through something traumatic in their life.

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Like when I had cancer, as an example, or a woman who was abused, et cetera,

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all those atrocities that exist, I hesitate to say that the universe

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is connected everything and that this was all happening for a reason.

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That's when I draw the line and I say, there are exceptions to everything.

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It's not a panacea to talk about everything in our lives.

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It's more or less like.

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When you feel the spiritual connection, that's what I mean.

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It's like, it's feeling like the universe is giving you a sign or a symbol or, or

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some, and you can call that religious.

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You can call that spiritual.

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You can call that the universe.

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You can call it God.

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You can call it art, whatever you want, but I have had the privilege, if you

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will, to be in congregations for the first 18 years of my life and to feel.

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Inside with my heart, what it feels like to have this solidarity with

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a bunch of other people who are praying and singing and talking and

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congregating all on the same page, that's the community that was built.

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And although the community also had ways of pushing people away like myself,

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those commonalities is what I see as the things that I want to extract.

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And the very same things that are offered in communities like theater and in arts.

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And especially for those who may be struggling and trying

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to find their community.

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Right now, I joined a choir this year, early this year.

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And again, I lump that under performance art.

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Because singing, It's such a wonderful feeling, but that's another community

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where I'm accepted, I go in, and I feel that same spiritual feeling

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that I felt many years ago, where I was like, wow, this is amazing.

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It's also important because it helps me to understand why people do what they do.

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It's easy to step aside and say, those people They're weird.

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They're all, they're talking about living forever on a different planet and they're

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doing this and they're doing that.

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Come on.

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There's no hell.

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There's no heaven.

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They're weird.

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They're stupid.

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All that kind of stuff.

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But there's a good reason why they get together.

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They have their good justifications.

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There aren't any good justifications for disparaging other people, but I see that.

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That's why I look at those commonalities and it's not to ignore

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the hatred and the negativity.

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It's to say, how can I learn from that?

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And extract that, and the arts happen to offer another venue to

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feel those very same feelings.

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So I can replace religiosity with community in the arts,

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and I can still feel fulfilled.

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Absolutely.

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My wife and I, we just went to go see at a dinner theater,

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Murder on the Aquarium Express.

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I've never seen play and that community that you're talking about, so we're like

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sitting right next to people almost on labs and some of the actors, so some of

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the servers or the demo, uh, one of the people that committed murder with us.

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Serving us.

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So it was that instance, Hey, we're all here.

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We're all enjoying it.

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We're all being entertained and enjoying what's happening there.

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And live theater, I'm going to toot my horn with live

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theater until the day I die.

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There is nothing like it.

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You can go see a movie, you can whatever, but seeing that live theater really

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connects you with the person next to you because you're sitting there

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and you're enjoying the same thing.

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With your books that has come out, I'm not dead yet.

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Again, I'm thinking, I can't get Monty Python out of my head, so

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forgive me on that, but I know for myself, when I've published for, self

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published for, books of poetry, and

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for me, and it's been that number of years since I've done that, but

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for me, I let my vulnerability go to about, I don't know, maybe 75 percent

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that for you, how was it publishing that book, telling your story, talking

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about the cancer and the upbringing?

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Did you feel, uh, you know, naked to the world and, Oh my God, people

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are going to read this or where did you save a little bit for yourself?

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No, it was hard.

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It was really hard.

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This was at times very grueling for me.

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And just to give you a preview, because I don't want to give everything away,

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but I was sexually abused when I was young by a cousin, a female cousin.

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I ended up abusing drugs and alcohol for quite some time.

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It was part of that deleterious cycle, if you will, where I

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just started destroying myself.

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I didn't care about myself, I didn't care about the world, and

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I actually ended up in prison.

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And so what I just revealed to you is very personal, right?

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It's wow, that's a lot.

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And I still haven't given you everything, but that's the major stuff in my life.

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And the reason why I say that is not so people can feel bad about for me.

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It's to show you the point that you're making here.

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It's that yes, in order to spill all that out for the world.

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To see you have to be vulnerable and if there's a such thing

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as 150 maybe I would use that

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But i'd say any type of vulnerability you're 75 Even if somebody does 10 I

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think that's what art is all about.

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It's about being vulnerable so that other people in the world Can connect to that

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when you're looking at a character on the stage or in the movies or Even if you're

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looking at a work of art What makes it profound is when you can see yourself or

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circumstances in your life, past, present, or otherwise, that come through, and it

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says something to you that stays with you.

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That's what makes it so profound.

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And there are so many people out there that are struggling that may not have

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gone through similar things as me, but may be thinking to themselves, I

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don't know, this is a lot, like how This, this is just too much for me.

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And I always feel like if I can go through all of those things and be okay.

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Cause no, I'm not trying to pretend like I'm perfect.

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I'll always have something to work on to become better, but I'm, I'm

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here and I'm not dead yet, right?

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It's like, if I can do that, then the smaller things in life, it

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doesn't mean they're less important.

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But they're doable, right?

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If you're not dying from cancer, if you're not in prison, being told that

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you're gonna die, get raped and killed there, because it's such a horrible

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place to be that there's a lot of people that are looking out to just destroy

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you as a person, I think it's okay.

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If I can get through those situations, then I can get through a bad day at work.

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You know what I mean?

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And sometimes I even forget, even though I've been through so much in my life.

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Sometimes I need that friendly, friendly reminder.

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Sometimes I give it to myself and I surround myself with people who are

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also very loving and supportive, which is, I know a privilege that I have, but

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sometimes they help to remind me as well.

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And they're very loving about that.

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And they say, you're very upset.

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Now you have a lot going on in your life, but this is nothing.

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This is okay.

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And I love that.

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Sorry if I got a little bit off track with your original question, but it's yeah.

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When I first started.

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Looking into writing this book, it was a few years ago and I, I got to the

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part of a few different parts that I was trying to write and I just had to

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stop because I started crying so much I couldn't even see in front of me.

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And what it was doing was it was reopening some of these wounds

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and I realized I'm not sure if this is the the right time for me.

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So let me process some more.

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Let me talk to some more therapists.

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Let me, you know, live my life and I'll, I'll come back to this.

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But I always knew something just like everything else in my life.

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If something keeps repeating itself and keeps coming back to me, that is

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a sign from the universe as far as I'm concerned that I need to do this.

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And my, and the book, my memoir was one of those things.

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And then I moved to Denver almost three years ago and I don't know.

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I can't tell you.

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I wish I could say it was the mountains that did it.

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I don't know for sure But moving here did something where it clicked it

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could have been time Maybe I needed those three extra years, whatever it

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was, but then I became ready to write this thing and it took me Let me see.

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It was like 4 14 months to write it and It just flowed.

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I still cried a bit.

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I thought you know, there's still some things there will always be that way

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but I wasn't, it didn't stop me in my tracks where I could not complete my art.

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And I call this art, although it's based in reality, but it's

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still like, it's recounting all of these situations from the past.

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So there's an art form too, where you have to pick and choose what details

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you use and all that kind of stuff.

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So short answer is yes, it was very hard.

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No, that's perfect.

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I'm just, I need to go get this book like tomorrow.

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That's all there because I am fully invested in it so much.

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I was invested in it before just from the title, but now just hearing you talk about

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it, you had mentioned your, your day job, organizational psychologist and all that.

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Myself, I'm a program manager.

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I deal with financial wellness for the federal government.

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Probably not.

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Artistic, and I'm putting that in huge, yeah, it's totally artistic, Joelmo.

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With your 9 to 5 and your artistic practice, how do you reconcile the two?

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How do you gain that inspiration to go ahead and do the art after 9 to 5?

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Yeah, what a great question.

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I think it's just being real with myself.

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We spent a good portion of our lives and I say we, but I really mean me.

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And I'm sure there's other people who feel similarly, but especially

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given my age, as I had mentioned, being 47, growing up in a world

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where we're taught, Oh, you're a man.

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You're supposed to act a certain way.

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When you feel negative emotions, you're supposed to control those

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things, especially in the workplace.

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And I've come to this place in my life and, and psychology has been

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very helpful in helping me get there.

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Where I've been able to process a lot more things in real time and not feel

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like I'm doing something bad or wrong or that is socially unacceptable.

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And part of that is just being really, not only true to myself, which means

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that you have to know yourself, but also being assertive with those around me to

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let them know what my needs are as well.

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Now, I'm not perfect at this, but examples of this are when I'm frustrated at work.

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And I'm unable to process that during that time.

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And sometimes you can't because you have to keep moving.

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You have to do your work, but what ends up happening is that it culminates.

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I think a lot of people understand that you're not, you shouldn't really bottle

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up your feelings, but we do it anyway.

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And the confounding effects of that are tremendous.

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The release of that, when you're able to, is very important.

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And so, I feel very privileged that I work for a company where, and I have

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people that I'm surrounded with at work and at home, where I'm able to

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process, for the most part, in real time.

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When something is bothering me, I say, I need to get this off my chest.

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And so I find those safe spaces.

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I also happen to be in charge of a department.

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So that's what I mean when I say I'm privileged in that way

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because I get to set the tone.

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And I've also been on a lot of other situations where the boss, if you

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will, although I don't consider myself a boss, but the person in charge just

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did not give those opportunities.

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So what happens when that's the case?

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Mindfulness breathing exercises, which are taught to actors from, for the most

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part, Early on when you're training has something has been something

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that has been very helpful for me And again, sometimes I just forget oh

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my gosh I I haven't done breathing.

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I haven't done any mindfulness and I need it because i'm like i'm all over

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the place and My heart is racing.

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I also suffer from anxiety.

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So But it makes sense after everything i've been through in my life that I

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overthink everything and so It's very important for me to bring myself to

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a place where I'm able to calm myself because that's how I'm able to get in

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touch with my feelings, get in touch with myself, and then be compassionate.

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I think that's very important.

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Now, even with all those tools that we have at our disposal, we're still going

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to be very busy working a nine to five and then doing some sort of artistic thing.

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Right after this podcast, believe it or not, I'm a glutton for I will

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be going into rehearsals for a play and yeah, I can't do this every day.

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I need to be careful I need a lot of self care during this time.

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And the other thing that I won't do is back to back plays Because I will need

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to take a break after this That all goes back to people who are listening to this

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would be like, what does that mean to me?

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What it means for you is that you need to be in tune with who you are,

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understand where your threshold is.

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And sometimes that takes a little bit of touching ghost.

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You know, you're experimenting with that and then you seal it.

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But if you're not in tune with who you are, you won't even know it.

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If you spent your entire life ignoring.

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the signs that your body, your mind, your spirit have been giving you, and maybe

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even the universe, for whatever reasons, and I'm one of those people, that's why

Speaker: 00:34:47

I say that, then you're not going to be able to know when the time is right for

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you to pivot, to stop, to keep going, etc.

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And that's really important.

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I, I, I can really relate to that because, because my nine to fives

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were in what's called the resilience.

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Everything that you're saying there, I'm like, man, I hear this

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all the time, day in and day out.

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But I think for the artist, and when you said actors get this breathing training

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and checking in with their bodies.

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I'm just thinking about all the other artists out there, like musicians

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that don't get the training, but an actor does, and thank God I

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got that training a long time ago.

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Being resilient and being kind to yourself.

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I recently had an interview where I was being in, I was actually on the other

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side of the microphone being interviewed and, and the interviewer asked me

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something to the effect of what, People, what do people not know about you?

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And I said to him, I'm not kind to myself.

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I'm the type a I'm like, I'm not busy enough and don't give myself enough rest,

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but I'm learning, especially with my day job and just being a, uh, better artists

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than I was when I was 18, when I was starting writing poetry, doing theater.

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At the ripe old age of 51.

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So you got a couple of years to go, but I'm learning that.

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And I probably started when I was 45, uh, 47 learning you need to take care

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of yourself, whether it be for your family, for your job, I'm an artist.

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I always introduce myself as I'm husband, father, artist.

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And that's how I keep all in, in perspective for myself.

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Learning to take care of myself as an artist is tough to do because we,

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and it sounds like to me, you have a lot of ideas going through your head

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that you would love to see either on the stage, on the page or sing for us.

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I think that's a huge point.

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We all need to take advantage of with organizational psychology.

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How does that teach us how to be resilient?

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Bring in that nine to five.

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Into our artistic practice.

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How does that teach us?

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I love this question because going back to that synergistic mindset, I

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love how psychology is informed my art and my art has informed psychology.

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And there, there's a subset of IO psychology and psychology,

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generally speaking, that's called positive psychology.

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And what I'd like to say is number one, the first thing that you

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learn about positive psychology is that it is not about ignoring

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negativity is not Pollyanna.

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It is about acknowledging negativity in your life, but

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choosing not to focus on that.

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So you, Let yourself be in that.

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Did Nietzsche say this, something about if you look into the abyss long enough

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you become the abyss, something like that?

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I love that, although I probably messed up the quote.

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And, the reason why is because, allow yourself to process like I had

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said before, negative emotions allow yourself to be there for as long

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as you need to, but then move on.

Speaker: 00:38:08

And what that means is Processing time looks like for people is going

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to be different across the board.

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So I might get really angry about something that takes me days to

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get over because maybe it triggers something that happened in my

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childhood, whereas somebody else will be over it and just five minutes.

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And so it's not about comparing, contrasting during their time.

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It's about understanding, again, who you are and why you're having

Speaker: 00:38:32

to take five days or whatever it is to process something.

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And then being okay with that.

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And then moving on and learning from it.

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And then one of those models that I really appreciated and I started to

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institute in my own life is called PERMA.

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And PERMA is P E R M A.

Speaker: 00:38:47

I can go over the acronyms really quickly here.

Speaker: 00:38:50

And what I like to do is tie it to running.

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Running, if I may, because I, I don't run as often as I used to, but running

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happens to be one of those activities that help me to tap into every facet of PERMA.

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And there are artistic endeavors that help me do the same, but I'm going to go

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to running because I've used it before, and it's easy for me to remember all

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the different ways that it's on PERMA.

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So the P in PERMA.

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Is positive emotion and positive emotion could be something like your

Speaker: 00:39:22

favorite candy bar But what you have to be really careful about with positive

Speaker: 00:39:26

emotion, whether it's sex candy bars or something other is that every?

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Positive emotion has a threshold if you have a cookie, it feels really

Speaker: 00:39:34

good, especially your favorite cookie But maybe after the third or fourth

Speaker: 00:39:37

cookie you start getting diminishing returns And so that's the p and

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when i'm running I feel really good.

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I may not feel good You Before I run because that's really hard.

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I'm like, I don't know.

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I'd rather watch tv But it feels good once I start and then it's then it hurts

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because like i'm doing something that's very rigorous And then in the middle of

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my run, sometimes i'll get this runner's high which feels really good again And

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then it goes back to oh this hurts.

Speaker: 00:40:04

I oh man, when is this going to be over with?

Speaker: 00:40:07

And then when i'm done I get another hit of dopamine because I just finished

Speaker: 00:40:10

something and so There's the threshold.

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I can't run forever.

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I can only do about three miles You If I do more than that, I start to get

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really serious, diminishing returns.

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The P is a part of how you build flourishing and well being in your.

Speaker: 00:40:26

The E is engagement.

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And in order to engage with the world around you, you need to

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understand what your strengths are.

Speaker: 00:40:32

And then the idea behind.

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The E or engagement is that you try to forge ways in your life where you

Speaker: 00:40:40

are creating things that actually help you with your strengths.

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One of my biggest strengths and anybody can take this assessment that's online.

Speaker: 00:40:48

It's called the values and action assessment.

Speaker: 00:40:50

It's free.

Speaker: 00:40:51

So I'm not pitching you anything that would cost you money, but you'll

Speaker: 00:40:55

have to give your email address.

Speaker: 00:40:56

So maybe if you had one of those emails that you didn't mind giving

Speaker: 00:40:59

out, what this does, there's a 32 or 34 different strengths.

Speaker: 00:41:03

That have been validated in the research.

Speaker: 00:41:06

Let me fast forward.

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Cause I don't want to make it all about the assessment, but my number one strength

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for years, cause you could take it every so often, every few years, just to see

Speaker: 00:41:14

if your strengths have changed is the appreciation of beauty and excellence.

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And how wonderful is that?

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It makes so much sense to me.

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And so when I'm trying to forge engagement, I try very hard

Speaker: 00:41:26

to incorporate whether I'm at work or otherwise, some sort of

Speaker: 00:41:30

appreciation of beauty and excellence.

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That could be in a report.

Speaker: 00:41:33

It could be in the mountains when I go hiking on weekends.

Speaker: 00:41:37

It could be so many other things, but that's the E.

Speaker: 00:41:40

The R is relationships and it can't just be any relationships.

Speaker: 00:41:44

It has to be positive relationships.

Speaker: 00:41:47

Oh, let me go back to the engagement for, I'm so sorry.

Speaker: 00:41:50

Appreciation of beauty and excellence for me when I'm running is the

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appreciation of that I get to run outside.

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I only like to run outside.

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I don't like running on a treadmill.

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That's just my preference.

Speaker: 00:41:59

And the reason why is because it's so beautiful, especially here in Denver.

Speaker: 00:42:03

To run around outside the ours relationships and there has to be good

Speaker: 00:42:07

positive relationships And it can happen many different ways, but for running

Speaker: 00:42:12

it's building that community Just like in the arts where you have a running

Speaker: 00:42:16

community, even if you run by yourself Because then you can go online and talk to

Speaker: 00:42:20

people about, Oh, hey, what's your pace?

Speaker: 00:42:22

What kind of, do you listen to music or do you not?

Speaker: 00:42:25

All those little things you get to learn, even if it's not happening

Speaker: 00:42:29

in real time with other people.

Speaker: 00:42:30

Those are the relationships you forge.

Speaker: 00:42:32

M is meaning and meaning is just that you need to live for more than yourself.

Speaker: 00:42:37

So this could go back to the community.

Speaker: 00:42:39

This could be something like my justification for running is for my

Speaker: 00:42:43

partner so that I live a longer time.

Speaker: 00:42:45

It can be for my parents who are aging and I just want to be there for them.

Speaker: 00:42:48

All sorts of things, but it can't be for, for yourself.

Speaker: 00:42:51

If you're engaging in meeting, it has to be for.

Speaker: 00:42:54

for something other than that.

Speaker: 00:42:55

That's where spirituality comes in as well.

Speaker: 00:42:58

And then the A is Achievement.

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And this is, for running it's a no brainer.

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When I finish that run, I feel like I've achieved something.

Speaker: 00:43:05

And in the arts, once you complete a project, that's the achievement.

Speaker: 00:43:09

I'm sure people in their mind, I'm hoping, are already connecting it to their art.

Speaker: 00:43:13

Running could be a form of art as well.

Speaker: 00:43:17

It's a sport, right?

Speaker: 00:43:18

Hopefully that's helpful.

Speaker: 00:43:19

And there's many other things, but that's my favorite model to use, implement,

Speaker: 00:43:24

and talk about and to help other people implement it in their lives as well.

Speaker: 00:43:28

It works.

Speaker: 00:43:30

The caveat here is you want to try to get something in your life.

Speaker: 00:43:34

That hits on every aspect.

Speaker: 00:43:35

It's not always possible.

Speaker: 00:43:37

So even if you just get two or three, that's fine.

Speaker: 00:43:39

The point is to just try things at the challenge yourself

Speaker: 00:43:42

to hit on all the aspects

Speaker: 00:43:44

of per

Speaker: 00:43:44

month.

Speaker: 00:43:44

I've hit almost all of them.

Speaker: 00:43:46

Relationships is the thing that I'm working on the most.

Speaker: 00:43:49

That's my weakest one.

Speaker: 00:43:50

I can tell you that right now, but I'm listening to this going, and

Speaker: 00:43:54

especially the achievement part at the end, it's getting that project

Speaker: 00:43:58

on whatever it is, doesn't have to be perfect, but it's just, I did this.

Speaker: 00:44:03

I made this.

Speaker: 00:44:04

I've got art all over my wall, as you can see here, and it's not what it looks like.

Speaker: 00:44:09

A fourth Corridor on crack painted it, and I'm okay with that.

Speaker: 00:44:13

It's fun.

Speaker: 00:44:14

It's in my office.

Speaker: 00:44:16

Some of them have actually been shown in galleries.

Speaker: 00:44:18

That's why they're in my office, because they haven't been bought.

Speaker: 00:44:21

But I look at it, and I go, I did that.

Speaker: 00:44:24

Most people that I know that I've worked with, they don't do art.

Speaker: 00:44:28

They don't write books.

Speaker: 00:44:30

They don't make music.

Speaker: 00:44:32

It'll do podcasts, podcast guy says that achievement really, and I think sometimes

Speaker: 00:44:39

when people are first getting into art, they focus maybe a little bit too much

Speaker: 00:44:44

on that achievement versus the others because to me it feels, and I'm not a

Speaker: 00:44:50

psychologist, nor do I play one on TV or on this podcast, but it seems to be like

Speaker: 00:44:55

a lot of this builds upon each other.

Speaker: 00:44:58

And then when you pay for achievement, if you've got your other jobs in a row or

Speaker: 00:45:03

most in a decent spot, that achievement is going to be so much better at the end.

Speaker: 00:45:09

I don't, I'm just going to see it or education.

Speaker: 00:45:14

Yeah, no, I think that's absolutely right.

Speaker: 00:45:17

And in some models, they elongated the perm model to say perm of Z.

Speaker: 00:45:22

And just real quickly, that would be a vitality, but there's arguments out there

Speaker: 00:45:26

that vitality could actually be lumped into some of the other elements of permo.

Speaker: 00:45:30

And then there's arguments that say the opposite, that no, the V is important,

Speaker: 00:45:34

an important addition to the model.

Speaker: 00:45:36

So, at the end of the day, regardless of how you practice or what you think,

Speaker: 00:45:41

if it's all aspects of PERMA V, etc.

Speaker: 00:45:44

The point is really that what you were saying, it's not, if you're just

Speaker: 00:45:49

fixated on one aspect, it's truly not going to give you as much well

Speaker: 00:45:55

being and flourishing in your life.

Speaker: 00:45:56

Then if you open that up to all the other aspects that exist, so I think

Speaker: 00:46:01

that's really what the point is.

Speaker: 00:46:02

It's just looking at things through a different lens.

Speaker: 00:46:05

So you could say, what am I naturally gravitating towards is really

Speaker: 00:46:08

good at doing like achievement.

Speaker: 00:46:10

And then where are my opportunities for development?

Speaker: 00:46:13

And maybe I just don't engage very much.

Speaker: 00:46:16

And that's the part where I've worked a nine to five.

Speaker: 00:46:19

Now I have this other, Job that I'm giving myself.

Speaker: 00:46:23

How do I engage in this?

Speaker: 00:46:25

And again, going back to what are your inner strengths and how do you make

Speaker: 00:46:29

that kind of happen in front of you?

Speaker: 00:46:32

It's easier said than done because it also takes a good understanding

Speaker: 00:46:37

of what makes you tick, right?

Speaker: 00:46:40

And we think we know ourselves because we were like, Oh yeah, I've been with

Speaker: 00:46:43

myself for as long as I've been alive.

Speaker: 00:46:45

I should know myself.

Speaker: 00:46:47

But we tend to lie to ourselves a lot more often than we even realize.

Speaker: 00:46:51

And on top of that, it's not only about the lies that we tell ourselves.

Speaker: 00:46:54

It's the lies that are given to us out in the mass market and in the media.

Speaker: 00:46:59

And I'm not talking about the political lies that are intentional to try to

Speaker: 00:47:03

change us in some way, shape or form.

Speaker: 00:47:05

I'm talking about the general sort of drumbeat of you must consume

Speaker: 00:47:12

in order for your life to be.

Speaker: 00:47:15

Good, you need more of this and that, and I fall into that trap, even

Speaker: 00:47:20

knowing that I shouldn't, that I'm tied to my phone, as an example, and to

Speaker: 00:47:24

technology, because it's intentionally trying to keep me that way, and it

Speaker: 00:47:30

works, because as much as we know, we shouldn't be tied to all these things.

Speaker: 00:47:34

We still are because that's the psychology that's being

Speaker: 00:47:37

used against us, unfortunately.

Speaker: 00:47:40

And so we'd have to work extra hard for that.

Speaker: 00:47:42

And so how do we build in these moments in our life that cut out the extraneous noise

Speaker: 00:47:50

and allow to live through our values?

Speaker: 00:47:52

That's super important.

Speaker: 00:47:54

But if you don't know what those values are, then you're lost

Speaker: 00:47:56

and you don't know what to do.

Speaker: 00:47:57

How do you validate something that you're not sure about?

Speaker: 00:48:00

And TikTok is not going to tell you what your values are.

Speaker: 00:48:03

I know I've been on TikTok for a couple of years now, it hasn't

Speaker: 00:48:06

told me what my values are.

Speaker: 00:48:09

Now, the algorithm is telling me what I'm interested in, supposedly, or

Speaker: 00:48:14

what they think I'm interested in.

Speaker: 00:48:16

It doesn't tell me what my values are.

Speaker: 00:48:18

Maybe I need to start up a TikTok channel that does that.

Speaker: 00:48:21

And one of the tools to do that, if you don't want to take an assessment

Speaker: 00:48:24

as an example, is to ask the five whys.

Speaker: 00:48:26

This is a simple thing.

Speaker: 00:48:28

And they use the number five, but it could be more or less than that number.

Speaker: 00:48:31

And it's simply treating yourself like a little kid.

Speaker: 00:48:34

You say something like, I really love painting pastels.

Speaker: 00:48:38

And when I do, I love painting mountains in pastels.

Speaker: 00:48:42

Okay, great.

Speaker: 00:48:43

So that's an interest, like something that you would find on social media

Speaker: 00:48:46

that would confirm your interest because you think it's beautiful or whatever

Speaker: 00:48:49

and that you find it fascinating.

Speaker: 00:48:51

Why?

Speaker: 00:48:53

And then when you answer that question, why?

Speaker: 00:48:55

Just like a little kid.

Speaker: 00:48:57

Keep asking that question until you get to the underlying reason.

Speaker: 00:49:01

That's a value.

Speaker: 00:49:03

That's what's motivating you.

Speaker: 00:49:04

And it's also really important because what happens the day that I can't

Speaker: 00:49:08

run for whatever reason, which I hope never happens, knock on wood.

Speaker: 00:49:11

As we get older, Sometimes it could be not because we can't do it from

Speaker: 00:49:16

a physical standpoint, but it could be because interests change, we're

Speaker: 00:49:19

getting older, whatever the case might be, we have children now.

Speaker: 00:49:23

Once we get to the core of our values as to why we're so interested in things,

Speaker: 00:49:29

it opens up doorways so that you don't have to do this one particular thing

Speaker: 00:49:35

in pastels and it has to be a mountain.

Speaker: 00:49:38

It could be that.

Speaker: 00:49:41

But it could also be all these other things that hit on that

Speaker: 00:49:43

very same underlying thing.

Speaker: 00:49:46

That's so important for us to understand.

Speaker: 00:49:48

That is, I, I remember when I first started writing poetry, it had to be four

Speaker: 00:49:53

line stanzas, everything had to line.

Speaker: 00:49:56

Yeah, because I learned it from, from church.

Speaker: 00:49:58

You have the hymns that you're singing, four stanzas, four

Speaker: 00:50:02

lines and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker: 00:50:04

And when I got deeper into my practice, I took grocery

Speaker: 00:50:09

lists and said, that's a poem.

Speaker: 00:50:12

And then I performed it in front of an audience.

Speaker: 00:50:13

And

Speaker: 00:50:16

what the hell this, they scratch their head.

Speaker: 00:50:19

They didn't throw tomatoes at me.

Speaker: 00:50:20

Thank God.

Speaker: 00:50:21

Cause I bought all the tomatoes from the grocery store earlier,

Speaker: 00:50:23

but he's reading his grocery list.

Speaker: 00:50:25

Yes, I am.

Speaker: 00:50:26

Enjoy.

Speaker: 00:50:27

And it's been.

Speaker: 00:50:29

It's so great to be able to do that.

Speaker: 00:50:31

I write about a million things, but that was one of my favorite things to

Speaker: 00:50:35

do is to break out of that mold and to explore, because in the world of

Speaker: 00:50:40

the arts, if you're just even just looking at theater, it just that no,

Speaker: 00:50:44

well, we're in it to explore musical theater, which I'm not a huge fan

Speaker: 00:50:50

of, but that's what I'm able to do.

Speaker: 00:50:52

And dramas and comedy, there's so much to explore.

Speaker: 00:50:56

Why limit yourself just to.

Speaker: 00:50:59

In the pastels of the mountains, in Colorado, in Denver.

Speaker: 00:51:04

I love this because this brings me back to why I said performance art.

Speaker: 00:51:08

If I can't do theater, I have to do a presentation at work

Speaker: 00:51:12

more than likely at some point.

Speaker: 00:51:14

Every quarter, there's going to be at least one, sometimes several.

Speaker: 00:51:18

That's my performance.

Speaker: 00:51:19

It's not the same, but it is the same.

Speaker: 00:51:22

You know what I mean?

Speaker: 00:51:22

It's that's where that synergistic mindset comes back.

Speaker: 00:51:25

And it says, I can memorize a monologue.

Speaker: 00:51:29

I can actually create my own script here.

Speaker: 00:51:31

It's going to be specific to my work.

Speaker: 00:51:33

But this is my opportunity to do some semblance of what I

Speaker: 00:51:37

find so exciting in my life.

Speaker: 00:51:41

It's easier said than done.

Speaker: 00:51:42

If I'm a painter, as an example, it's probably a little bit harder to

Speaker: 00:51:46

find ways of painting, but maybe not.

Speaker: 00:51:48

What's underlying the painting?

Speaker: 00:51:49

Isn't the drawing itself?

Speaker: 00:51:52

Is it maybe there's more tactile things that you could do at work that's going

Speaker: 00:51:55

to satiate your need for being on top of that or being engaged in that until

Speaker: 00:52:01

you're able to do that thing again.

Speaker: 00:52:04

But as artists.

Speaker: 00:52:05

We're doing this because it's in our blood, right?

Speaker: 00:52:08

This is how we operate.

Speaker: 00:52:10

This is how we thrive.

Speaker: 00:52:11

And so I think it behooves us to take the time to understand the

Speaker: 00:52:17

commonalities that exist so that we can recreate these moments.

Speaker: 00:52:21

Uh, instead of taking it as like our lives are separated between our nine

Speaker: 00:52:26

to five so that we can allow ourselves to do things that we really want to do.

Speaker: 00:52:30

Dr.

Speaker: 00:52:30

Josh, what is next for you?

Speaker: 00:52:32

Uh, we, we, we have this book out, are, are, are we looking at another

Speaker: 00:52:36

book, uh, coming out anytime soon?

Speaker: 00:52:38

You talked about doing the course and, uh, and, and, uh, doing a play,

Speaker: 00:52:43

uh, do you have another book in you?

Speaker: 00:52:46

Oh yeah.

Speaker: 00:52:47

I have a few more books.

Speaker: 00:52:48

Thanks.

Speaker: 00:52:48

Thanks.

Speaker: 00:52:50

I think at this point, it's me getting myself to sit down like I did

Speaker: 00:52:55

before and dedicate the time for it.

Speaker: 00:52:58

And with this, uh, play that I'll be engaging in for at least the next month

Speaker: 00:53:04

and a half, that'll take up the time.

Speaker: 00:53:07

And then, yeah, we'll see, like I'm in no rush to get more books out, but I

Speaker: 00:53:12

definitely do have them living within me.

Speaker: 00:53:14

And I do know this, that Until the day I die, I dedicated, I have

Speaker: 00:53:20

dedicated my life to being an artist.

Speaker: 00:53:24

Performance art just happens to be the thing that I gravitate

Speaker: 00:53:27

towards, but writing a book is also, like I said, a form of art.

Speaker: 00:53:33

And I will continue to look for different ways that I could just continue being an

Speaker: 00:53:37

artist and help people to be motivated and experience things that allow them to

Speaker: 00:53:45

see that they're not alone in this world.

Speaker: 00:53:47

Any bits of advice or anything that you wish you could have told yourself when

Speaker: 00:53:52

you first recognized that you were an artist, that you're sitting here, uh,

Speaker: 00:53:57

at the young age of 47, that you would like to know back when you were 18.

Speaker: 00:54:02

Yeah, it's a great question.

Speaker: 00:54:04

I think go ahead and have, go ahead and have your goals and aspirations.

Speaker: 00:54:09

Go ahead and dream, reach for the stars, but be okay.

Speaker: 00:54:15

With the realities that life doesn't always pan out exactly the way you wish

Speaker: 00:54:21

or think it should and that's okay and Accepting that can be some of the most

Speaker: 00:54:28

beautiful moments in your life Because again, whether you call it the universe or

Speaker: 00:54:33

something else You being given something as a learning lesson that you can absorb

Speaker: 00:54:39

and take with you And it may not be exactly what you wished it would be but

Speaker: 00:54:45

it's what you have And it's probably more than a lot of other people wish they had.

Speaker: 00:54:50

So that mindfulness comes into play where you're able to just look at

Speaker: 00:54:56

what's happening in the moment in front of you and be appreciative of

Speaker: 00:55:00

that, regardless of what you wish it could have been or should have been.

Speaker: 00:55:05

That's awesome.

Speaker: 00:55:06

Dr.

Speaker: 00:55:07

Josh, thank you so very much for being on the show.

Speaker: 00:55:10

And just for being the genuine you, I can, yeah, we're doing this

Speaker: 00:55:16

via video, but I'm just like, man.

Speaker: 00:55:19

I need to go out and give this guy a big hug.

Speaker: 00:55:21

Thank you very much.

Speaker: 00:55:22

Thank you so much.

Speaker: 00:55:23

That's very kind of you.

Speaker: 00:55:24

And it's been an honor and a pleasure to be here.

Speaker: 00:55:27

Thank you so much for having me on the show.

Speaker: 00:55:31

All right.

Speaker: 00:55:31

That's my interview with Dr.

Speaker: 00:55:33

Joshua Caraballo.

Speaker: 00:55:34

Want to thank him so much.

Speaker: 00:55:36

For all the insight that he gave us in this interview,

Speaker: 00:55:40

definitely check out his book.

Speaker: 00:55:41

I'm not dead yet.

Speaker: 00:55:43

And, uh, while you're looking at that book, go and watch

Speaker: 00:55:48

Monty Python's Holy grail.

Speaker: 00:55:50

You'll understand some of the inside jokes that we had in this interview,

Speaker: 00:55:54

uh, after you're watching that.

Speaker: 00:55:57

So something new that I'm doing here is, and that I'm trying out anyways,

Speaker: 00:56:01

is a couple of affiliate links that I have for you to check out.

Speaker: 00:56:06

The first one is with pod match.

Speaker: 00:56:08

Now, if you're a podcaster looking for guests, or if you're thinking

Speaker: 00:56:14

about becoming a podcaster and you're like, well, where am

Speaker: 00:56:17

I going to get these guests?

Speaker: 00:56:18

Like Tim gets, you can go to pod match.

Speaker: 00:56:21

I have my affiliate link there, so definitely use my affiliate link

Speaker: 00:56:25

when you join up with Podmatch.

Speaker: 00:56:27

And if you are wanting to be a guest on podcasts, well, obviously you can reach

Speaker: 00:56:34

out to me, Timothy at createartpodcast.

Speaker: 00:56:37

com, or you can go into Podmatch and sign up for their service.

Speaker: 00:56:42

And be a, a guest on a number of podcasts that are gonna be matched

Speaker: 00:56:47

with you and with what you're interested in talking about.

Speaker: 00:56:51

Now, if you like the website that you're seeing this podcast on and the

Speaker: 00:56:57

website is create art podcast.com, I use what's called pod page and I

Speaker: 00:57:04

have affiliate link there with them.

Speaker: 00:57:06

Here's the secret folks.

Speaker: 00:57:08

I don't know how to code websites.

Speaker: 00:57:10

I kind of do, but I'm, I'm a little bit dangerous with it.

Speaker: 00:57:14

So I let them go ahead and do my websites and they come out really good.

Speaker: 00:57:20

I really enjoy them.

Speaker: 00:57:21

There's a lot of tools in there that you can use.

Speaker: 00:57:24

And, uh, one of the favorite tools that I like that.

Speaker: 00:57:28

Unfortunately, not a lot of people are using is the voicemail tool so you

Speaker: 00:57:33

can go to my website createartpodcast.

Speaker: 00:57:35

com slash voicemail and you can leave me a voicemail and let me know how I'm

Speaker: 00:57:43

doing, how you enjoyed the interview, any, anything that you want to put there.

Speaker: 00:57:48

Definitely check out the website and check out the voicemail.

Speaker: 00:57:52

Would definitely love to hear from you and all you got to do.

Speaker: 00:57:57

Create our podcast.

Speaker: 00:57:58

com slash voicemail, and you can be featured on this show.

Speaker: 00:58:04

My last thing that I want to talk about is sharing the show.

Speaker: 00:58:07

Now, definitely I would love it if you shared the show with your friends.

Speaker: 00:58:11

If you want to give it a five star review or whatever review

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on your podcast app of choice, by all means, go ahead and do that.

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But the way I share the show is with pod beacon.

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Now pod beacon has technology in wristwatches.

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Well, I call them wristwatches.

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They also have key fobs and a number of other objects that you can use.

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And they're using NFC technology.

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So that way somebody can put their phone over your wristwatch.

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And it'll automatically take their phone right to your website

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where you want them to go.

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So if you have a podcast out there, definitely check that out for yourself.

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It's a great service.

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And I have an affiliate link for that as well.

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So if that's something that you're interested in, definitely

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check out the affiliate link and check out podcast beacon and all

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their wonderful objects, tools, wristwatches, key fobs, what have you.

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So that way you can share your podcast.

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All right.

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Enough of the affiliate links and all that kind of good stuff.

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I want to thank you for listening in to create our podcast.

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I do make this show for you and with you in mind.

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So if you have ideas.

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Thoughts, critiques, what have you, you can email me timothyatcreateartpodcast.

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com be happy to read what you, uh, would like to hear more of, or if

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you'd like to be a guest, definitely you can reach out to me through there.

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Again, if you're looking to do a lot of podcasts, try Podmatch.

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I think you'll really enjoy it.

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I do run a another podcast called find a podcast about, and you can find that

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at find a podcast about dot X, Y, Z.

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And it has all the same features that create our podcast does.

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You can leave voicemails there and reviews and all that kind of good stuff.

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But in find a podcast about what I do is I search through all the podcasts

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that I can find and bring you the ones that are the most binge worthy,

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thereby saving you a lot of time.

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And, you know, giving you a real personalized.

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Review of these podcasts that I think are very important.

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So check that out for yourself.

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Now, all this is made possible by TKB studios.

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And that is my podcast production company where I help people go through

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all the noise that's out there and cut through it and produce wonderful

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podcasts for you and your business.

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Your projects, what have you, I can help you out with that.

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All right.

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That's all I have for you today.

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I hope this was enjoyable for you.

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I know it was, I know this conversation was really enjoyable for me.

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So now it's time for you to go out there, tame that inner critic,

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create more than you can see.

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Go out there, make some art for somebody you love yourself.

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I'll talk to you next time.